A very nice person asked me some questions in email, asking why we couldn't keep going on Emma when other groups are doing licensed properties like One Piece, for example. I thought my reply might interest some of the rest of you:
Fair enough. I'll be happy to explain as well as I can.
The Rightstuf release will be box sets of each season, for something like $40 each. That's WAY CHEAP. They will be subtitled, not dubbed into English.
Actually, it's just as illegal to fansub things before they're licensed as after they're licensed! But before they're licensed, our activities are seen by the anime companies as helping them to boost interest in the show. So they look the other way.
But once it's licensed, every copy of an episode that we distribute is potentially one less sale for the anime company that just paid a lot of money for the rights to distribution. So it's NOT in their best interests for us to do what we do, at that point. And even though a lot of these anime companies are run by fans, too, they can't afford to be lax about it.
If we were to continue, Rightstuf would probably send us what's called a Cease and Desist letter. It's a very, very scary legal document that threatens you with some rather nasty stuff, and they can do it, too. Some companies even send it as a formality even if the fansub group does drop the project, and then you have to get lawyers to send a letter back saying sorry, very sorry, we'll stop, yes, we'll never do it again, sorry, did I mention I was sorry?
That being said, there are less-than-ethical groups, like the ones doing Death Note and One Piece and all the rest, that keep working on the project, hoping that the company won't notice, won't bother with them, or that they won't be able to find them.
This is a really, really bad way to bet. Most of these groups are kids who think they are immortal and bad things happen to OTHER people. Sadly, this turns out not to be the case. A lot of them DO get Cease and Desist letters, and at that point they find themselves in a very bad position, because not only are they violating the law, they're doing it deliberately and with full knowledge that what they're doing is wrong.
But even more important than the legal mumbojumbo, to me, at least, is that these companies are not bad people out to spoil our fun... they're paying money to buy the rights to the show and redistribute it to far more people than we ever could. And at the point they do that, our activities hurt them, and -- I believe -- fans in general. So even though everything we do is technically illegal anyway, we stop work on the project out of ethical concerns. "Honor among thieves," and all that.
Some groups pretend to drop the project, but then form a second group, under another name, and keep working on the project in secret. We're not going to do that. If some other group takes it up, that's up to them, but rest assured it won't be us.
Don't be fooled by that 2012 date... Rightstuf will release it way earlier than that. They ship to most of the world, and the price is REALLY CHEAP. I can't complain about this development at all. In the short term, yes, it sucks, but in the long run, it's much better for everyone.
Trust me, this is not a decision we came to lightly. Emma has been my life for many years now, and the act of putting down my tools and walking away from it is bittersweet at best. But this is how me and my friends agreed to handle this situation, from the start. This is the third project I've had to abandon like this, and it never gets any easier.
In a way, I worked myself out of a job. Because of the work we did, Emma built up a fanbase that brought it to the attention of Rightstuf, and made it an attractive product for them to buy. I helped to do that! Me! And though I'm a bit misty typing this now, I'm very, very proud. I did it, and I'm glad.
Next up... Emma Bangaihen. Unless they license that too. :)
Hey Whispers!
I just want to thank you for everything you've done to help put everything together. You do a lot and I want you to know that everything you do doesn't go unappreciated.
Everything you said holds weight to it. All that you've mentioned is correct and I am aware of this already.
My problem is that I won't be able to finish the series. I cant buy no more anime. Its not that I'm cheap but, my parents are against it and plus I'm getting married. I can't be having anime you know. I'm suppose to grow up and its something that will be hard for me to do because I LOVE ANIME!
What I think is that Rightstuf should have a dub. It doesnt make sense for them to release an anime with no dub. You might as well keep subbing the anime. My reason is probably they know Emma is a beautiful anime and they wouldnt want to take their chance and do a horrible dub. For them, playing it safe is their best alternative.
I forgot who mentioned it but, one of the posts mentioned that they couldve had a different company dub it and that they would release it, something to that effect.
My question would be to you, Whispers, is would you reconsidered continuing with the series. I mean you have 3 eps to go and it would be kinda of sad to not finish it. I know you want us to support Mori-san, if I could I definately would. But, in my stage in my life collecting anime is out of the question. I'm not old, I just turned 20 in april but, Im muslim and its something that I definately am NOT suppose to do. That why I only watch fansubs now because I could watch it online and then delete it. I dont like doing this but, if I want to watch an anime without buying it, those are my only options.
I know who probably dont care and I cant blame you but, I just wanted who to know the reason for my belief. Well, thats all I have to say about it. Thanx for all youve done and I hope that you understand me fully. If you still cant continue on then, I understand. Hope we talk soon!
-Huda-i completely understand your reasons and have a lot of respect for you and the group decision.
i love the emma anime, no matter how different it is from the manga.
i love the guide at the end of each episode.
and as much as i would like to be selfish and say "oh, what are three episodes anyway?" i know i would not want to be responsible for encouraging the translation group's total annihilation courtesy of big time lawyers.
i can't find it in myself to say "finish the season" while turning my back if your group was in trouble because i am halfway across the world. call me stupid and corny, but i think that fans must support not only the group's work but the group as well.
there is something that sucks more than not been able to finish the anime for a while and that is that when i do buy the box set there will be no whisper's guide after each episode. :)
best wishes on your next project.
a dedicated fan,
tir
You know, they might put in something like Whisper's Guide. It could happen. Otherwise, wouldn't people wonder why Emma was putting down tea leaves in episode 1?
And if they do, don't give them grief for "stealing" the idea for the guide... it's a pretty basic idea, and I'd be flattered to think that I might have influenced them.
And if they don't, that's what the internet's for.
>My reason is probably they know Emma is a beautiful anime and they wouldnt want to take their chance and do a horrible dub.
Their official reason they gave out for the sub only release is that economically, they can't justify the expense of dubbing for the potential sales they can realistically expect. Emma is a "niche within a niche", as they say, with little mass-market appeal. I doubt they're happy about it, and they would certainly be confident about producing an acceptable dub if it were economically viable.
I'm sure they'll put in some notes. Although I only have two Rightstuf releases, they both contain translation notes, and even information from some of the creators involved.
But yes... I can say it definitely hurt being denied the ending of Emma twice now! But I'll be waiting patiently for CMX's manga release to finish up, and now for the DVDs to be released.
I really appreciated your translations, so thanks very much for introducing so many people to this wonderful little series, and taking the time to explain this to everyone. Ever think about getting a professional translation job, or is it just a personal thing you do?
As for those who can't buy Emma, all I can say is sorry. Buy what you like, if you can. If you have to go without it, life goes on. Simple as that. I'd love to have a huge collection myself, but I'm just a young person without a great job. But I can definitely put some money aside for Emma.
sub it, it's THREE episodes, i understand there are legal difficulties but you've already ridden the horse much, MUCH more than halfway down the cobblestone road, so why not finish what you've started and get to your destination? Ask permission, or do whatever it takes.
insted of subbing the last episodes how about releasing them as a subtitle file for the raws?
Question to Whispers about Whispers Guides.
Is there any way to get a copy of the Whispers Guides for Season One or would that still be illegal. I watched a different fansub for season one but really enjoyed watching the guides for season 2.
And if it was possible for you Whispers to even just do the last 3 Whispers guides, so that when we buy copy of the dvd we could still have our wonderful guides?
just wondering
p.s.I've said it time and time again in other posts but thank you to the entire group for all of your work. So many of us have come to love Emma and the translators would spent many hours fansubbing for us. Thanks over and over again.
Maybe you should actually read >>1.
That's just as illegal, and just as immoral.
We have been toying with the idea of doing something with the guides. A webpage, perhaps. We'll see.
However, as far as I know, there are no other fansubs of Emma. I do know some Hong Kong bootleggers supposedly ripped off some of our work and made DVDs of that, could that have been where you got those?
Ahhhhhhhhh! I can't believe it!
But I'm also really happy and proud and amazed (we'll more like smug) because the big boys finally noticed what we knew all along: that Emma is awesome and gosh darnit people need to see it. I'll definitely be buying a box set.
Dear Whispers et Al,
Many thanks for your hard work but I think it's a pity it will all go to "waste" and I was thinking why don't you propose YOUR subbing to Rightstuf? I'm sure everyone in this forum agrees that Emma 1&2 have been among the best fansubbed animes out there. I'm sure that Rightstuf would alse save a lot of time and money. I truly believe it can be a win-win scenario where the fans get a high quality translation and the company releases Emma much sooner and cheaper than expected. Give it a try and what's the worse it can happen? If they say no it their loss and if they agree then you get funds for your next "vicious" project while you work on Bangaihen (or even the raw "Emma - Victorian Guide" if you need a stronger Emma "fix").
Those were my two cents, but I don't want to end without also casting my vote for a web release of Whispers' Guides.
P.S. If you get Rightstuf, convince them that a lot of people enjoy GOOD notes after episodes!
I've never quite understood why people have this idea that things would be a "waste" if you drop something without finishing it. Even for a non-licensed project, what, are you supposed to do, just dismiss everything up to that point as worthless? In this case, it's been said already:
This is the best thing that could possibly happen
People seem to miss this point. The series in question has been acquired by a company with more money than anyone else, who is planning on releasing it and bringing it to the biggest audience they can. Just try and tell me there's something wrong with that.
The problem, it seems, is that there's some skepticism over the abilities of certain companies to fulfill this in a satisfactory manner. Well, that's a separate matter to deal with altogether, but the point still stands.
That said, I think the idea of offering services to RightStuf (and this applies in any other case where a fansubbed title is subsequently licensed) is a fantastic one. It's something I've considered in the past but never acted upon. It's 100% rational, and everyone would get a mutual benefit. However.
To date, I don't believe any such deal has ever been made. Why, when there's only positive benefits for all parties? I suspect it has something to do with image. To make such a deal would be seen by some as legitimising fansubs and tarnishing competitive image (companies want to be seen to be licensing fresh, new titles). There's probably also fear that it would get more publicity for fansubs, dredging up a whole lot of moral issues and legal grey-areas, and bringing them to wider attention. There's also the practical matter of actually negotiating such a deal and ensuring quality, but this is far from insurmountable.
I personally think that these arguments are insubstantial. For a fairly competitive niche market, licensing companies don't have an endless well of cash. The value of having your translators and editors also being rabid fans of the series is immeasurable. Sure they'll try harder naturally, but they'll just "get" so much more about it. You get a much higher quality of work. They'll probably also work for free! It's an honour. Then there's the obvious benefit that your product gets to market quicker. Noone could complain about that.
As I said, I think it's a very compelling argument. I think it'd be sad to see a fledgling industry go down the path of the mainstream music/movie market, propelled by fear of the public actually having a clue and trying to keep an iron grip on everything.
I was thinking of a similar thing except instead of having the overseas licensing company making the arangement, go straight to the Japanese Animation houses and have them aquire the sub-titles to be burned on to their DVDs when released in the Japanese market.
In return the designated Fan-sub group aquire the rights to distribute their work until the Japanese animation houses release their own.
Additional compensation can be made through banner advertisement and other non-direct marketing efforts by the animation houses.
This way both sides gains a share and above all, the fans gains the most.
I understand what you're saying. And I appreciate the fact that you mentioned that "fansubbing" is illegal BOTH before and after the title is licensed! Most groups ignore this gesture. I guess this is unfortunate since I really wanted to see the ending (only 3 episodes to go) and the fact that the release date as of now is 2012 - that's insane! Even if they did release it earlier it'll still be in a while.
One thing to keep in mind is that for a company to effectively protect its intellectual property, it has to defend it rigorously. If it does nothing to defend it, if they just let copyright violations slide, then it becomes more difficult for their copyright to hold up in court.
So if they're of a mind to look the other way, they have to pretend they don't see us.
The key is "plausible deniability." Yes, I'm sure that anyone looking for likely license possibilities would be wise to check out what groups are subbing what, how well received the episodes are, internet chatter about the series, download counts, and so on. But officially, they have no idea we even exist, wink wink nudge nudge.
If we were to make it impossible for them to keep up this pretense, they would just about HAVE to take legal action. That's harsh, but that's how it is. It's nothing personal, it's just business.
So if I were to send them a letter and say "Hi, I'm the fansubber that did Emma," their lawyers would very likely insist that they Do Something About It. And they wouldn't appreciate it a bit, since they would have preferred to give me a break, but I foolishly painted them into a corner and they had no choice but to clobber me.
It's sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" sort of situation.
So I'm not going to go up to them and say "Yoo hoo! Here I am!" That would be foolhardy. If they want something from me, they know where to find me. Such cooperation between fansubbers and anime companies would be extremely unusual, however.
Some fansubbers do "go legit" and work for the anime companies. But for me to translate for them... I am actually quite weak as a translator, believe it or not. I am mostly strong in the areas of editing, organization, and various other things. In the realm of translation, I would be lost without other translators helping me, such as Xtian, mogura and FON.
They don't really need me anyway. The general concept of the guide is not at all difficult, and they can do the research as well as I did, if not better, since they'd have access to Kaoru Mori's own researcher.
It's understandable. I wish that you guys could keep going, (because I'm mad impatient and want to know what happens next) but it's really good that Emma's coming out in a box set~ so I'll look into that.
Still, even though you are stopping, I just want to thank you and all the other translators for putting together all the episodes that you did. Yeah, it would be great to see the last few, but hey! Awesome work on what you've done--I'm totally hooked on the series and I really appreciate getting to see so much of it already.
Good luck with Emma Bangaihen!
I was both happy and sad to hear that Emma got licensed. Happy because I'd finally be able to get a legal western release, and sad because I knew the team at iichan would stop the fansubs. It's quite understandable that you'd stop, and I admire you for making that decision. Thank you all for introducing the world of Emma to us, it was a really pleasant experience. :) Thanks for the hard work!
I was wondering though, if a rundown/summary/script of the remaining episodes could be posted up, just to give some sort of closure while waiting for the DVDs to be released. ^^' I turned to watching the raws for my closure [which is ok for me, I know enough Japanese to catch the gist of what's going on], but for those who are unable to, I think it'd be much appreciated. ^^' (on another note, the 2nd season ending is great! <3 I'm so pre-ordering my disks from Right Stuf!)
If you people are that desperate to see the thre final episodes translated, you should try to ask for help at 4chan. Yeah, it's a place full of crazy dull kids, but they are the ones actually doing releases for things like Death Note or Gurren Lagann. I think whispers has been very clear in his position, and maybe without his subs almost nobody would have interest in Emma. He has done fair enough.
You can just read the manga it's just as good if not better than the anime.
i was wondering, why don't they release the r2 dvd's with English subtitles for most anime?
Just watched the last episode...beautiful ending...I might say even better than the manga itself (though the rest is rest of this season is rather so-so...)...I must say Emma is quite the "fertile" one isn't she?...and Eleonor finally has a chance for happiness...
Because licensing is a big source of income, while translation would cost them money in return for a quite insignificant increase in sales.
i admit was really attracted to the show even before i started watching or reading its material. Never have I really enjoy a series that much compare to rather "popular" shows like Naruto, Bleach, etc. It was really enjoying watching Emma series and lots of thanks to iichan for subbing the show. Though, i really felt heart broken upon looking at this post and confirming it in the mirc channel T_T. Well, lots of luck to iichan on other projects! :3
i understand what you are saying, but i feel its very wrong to leave people hanging and waiting at least two or more years to see what happens.. by that time perhaps some people will have given up and lost interest. i worry that i will because i am so very frustrated right now. i think they should have waited until the fansubbing was complete before they publicly announced the licensing to give the real fans of the series a chance to see the ending before they were forced to wait for a boxed set-especially because as far as i know-IIchan is the only subber.. its not like we can go elsewhere. And again i do understand your reasons for discontinuing, but i feel it was cruel on the part of the licensing company to announce it this early in the game. its more apt now to piss off the fans who've waited patiently for the second season and now feel horribly cheated. i do not agree with the statement that just because its fully fansubbed people will not buy it. i think a true fan of the series would buy it anyway-i would but right now if i have to wait that many years to see the like last 3-4 eps, i cant honestly say i will buy it and even care. its best to release it when its fresh in peoples minds and not keep fans waiting over two years.. that is VERY cruel. im really disheartened over that and hope you can understand a fans disappointment and agony, and i realize its not your fault. you are doing the right thing.. i just think these companies need to be a bit more considerate of the fan-bases for these shows since this is like not exactly a mainstream show to begin with and they really are risking alienating the dedicated fanbase which has followed the series these years.. :( also.. its inconsiderate imo to you guys because YOU helped build the fanbase that made them decide to license it.. and in the end, quite frankly, they turn around and screw you over by not giving the curteousy of letting you finish subbing it before they go and announce it to the world :/ i admire companies that license things after subbing has been completed. they apparently do not feel threatened by subbers-and they shouldnt. subbers do the hard work for them and these companies get all the money and glory from the shows when the subbers really did the hard work of building solid fan bases for them. if you are confidant in the product you sell, you shouldnt fear the subbers releasing a full fansubbing before you start licensing.. its not like we here in america get to see the shows on TV like the japanese.. its only fair imo to give us that chance, that shot at previewing it for ourselves before we make the commitment to spend money. i mean i understand if others have different opinions..but thats just the way i personally feel about it all ^_^
Let's try and put this into some context, as well as see if we can't nail down a few details.
As I'm sure you'll remember, whispers mentioned that companies can't afford to acknowledge our existence. There's no "being unfair to fans". We don't exist. All anyone knows is "we recognise there might be a market for this title so let's see how it goes when we license it".
And what's that? You want to preview it before you buy it? You've had a whole first season and a full three quarters of the second season, and you're still not sure!? Incredible.
Now, some perspective, and why you_will_not_be_waiting_until_2012.
To Heart is another fine series that RightStuf picked up late last year, around November or December, I think. It's similarly niche, and very old. It was on my personal list of "stuff I would license and release if I won the lottery".
Since then, RightStuf has painstakingly cleaned up the video (the originals are infamously poor quality) and had a dub made. The first DVD was released this year in late March, if I recall. That's an initial turnaround of a few months, on a title that would have needed a lot more work than Emma will. The following DVDs are each separated by about another one and a half months on average (the final one will come out in late August). That's an episode every couple of weeks.
Now consider that RightStuf will (in all likelihood) be getting nice clean masters from the studio. They don't have to spend time making a dub. They can have a few people working on it and these people don't have other life commitments to get in the way. RightStuf already knows all of this.
RightStuf would also know that time-to-market is very important when you've just announced a license. The sooner you release it, the sooner you can sell it. They also know that you need to "strike while the iron is hot". Fans won't stick around forever waiting, though I don't imagine they've counted on some of the attentions spans we're seeing here...
I'm going to be incredibly optimistic here. With no evidence or facts to base my claims upon, I expect we'll see a release of the first season within three months.
Also, I've asked Rightstuf about that 2012 date, and as expected, they have emailed me telling me that is just a placeholder date that means "no firm date set yet."
I think Roberta's three-month guess is a good one.
BUY! BUY! BUY!
You know you are counterdicting yourself with the above statement.
A license is a source of big income while placing subs on prints that are going to be made anyways does not amount to significant amount of sales?
If licensees are willing to pay a certain amount for licensing, translating and producing their own prints means there is a market to obtain profit from the money invested.
You sound as if you want to discourage the Japanese companies that holds the license not to do so for some other agenda.
OMG!!
NOOOO!!!
>>29
Hardly. Japanese people don't really care about having English subs, so the only market for such a thing would be external. The Japanese market has practically no exposure in other countries, so the only people who would even hear about subs-on-Japanese-DVDs would be hardcore fans.
Furthermore, Japanese DVDs are very expensive. Each volume can easily cost about $50-60 AUD (about 40-50 USD, I think), and Japanese DVDs tend to have two episodes on them. Getting all of the first season of Emma was very dear, and now that it's licensed, I don't have to try and justify importing the second.
Licensing changes that, as the licensee can handle local promotion, creating a market on the spot.
In short, it's just not financially viable to have subs on JP DVDs. The buyers can't buy and the sellers can't sell.
>>31 got it right, but forgot: Region 2 DVDs are Region 2. They won't play in most US DVD players. In summary, it's not good for them because it's a wasted effort, and it's not good for you because you couldn't afford it.
That is not to say that it hasn't been attempted - most of FLCL had English subtitles on it - but it hasn't turned out successful.
Huh, that's really an issue in this day and age? Sucks.
FLCL has generally been really popular in the west, so the R2 DVDs having subs still apparently didn't amount to much (I don't hear fans buying imports).
>>13 I've heard of a case with manga where the licensor contacted a scanlation group and got permission to use their translations. It was for a small non-English market though.
I think its time for licensors and funsubbers to collaborate with each other and make the curent system official. IMO,no matter how i look at it, it seems to me as though lincensors use funsubbers, or rather just wait and see what anime is popular amongst the fan subbing community and lap shows up when are doing well. With emma, i'd say its a bit of a risk, and at the same time admiration of the show, because its not that popular.
I just think that, everyone knows this, and why not make it official, whispers has even advertised sales for rightstuff. If licensors took a little more time to communiate with funsubbers there wouldnt be so much hatred, and it might solve the whole stop to funsubbing issue.
Lots of people out there only watch funsubbed anime cos its free. I know i do. i wouldnt presonally like to go out and buy 3 episode dvd's of 26 episode series, esp considering they cost a bomb, thats just reality. And the downside of this reality is, that sales and selecion where i live, in the UK are crap. At HMV which is one of the only places i find anime, at a popular walk in shop, you get ancient anime, and incomplete dvd sets.
Bottom line, if anime was cheaper, and the industry including funsubbers all worked together, then perhaps people like me would one day decide to buy anime, and the shops would have complete sets, whith new stuff.
The larger picture is that, just like I worked myself out of a job with Emma, fansubbers in general have made the genre popular to the point that shows are getting licensed earlier and earlier, even at the planning and financing stages.
That's a good thing! That means the Western consumer wins bigtime! But it also means that fansubbers IN GENERAL have worked themselves out of a job. Our era is fading, and eventually we will be obsolete.
We're going to have to reinvent our role in this industry. What does that mean? I don't know, really, but it'd be best to figure that out sooner than later.
Haha, sounds like losing that "indy vibe" that gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling. Realistically, why not just sit back and enjoy the ever-increasing amounts of stuff there is to enjoy. Fansubbers started doing what they do because there was no other way to spread the love. Now it's out there, "the job is done" so to speak.
But as you say, "what am I supposed to do now?". You'll just have to turn to more niche and hardcore stuff to satisfy your desire to spread things. It really is like a drug addiction...
P.S. I'd suggest visual novels, but the time to get any sort of "feedback" or "release" is insane, and you need to do so much more work to get there. Plus, the fanbase is really small. But it's satisfying. :)
> Lots of people out there only watch funsubbed anime cos its free. I know i do. i wouldnt presonally like to go out and buy 3 episode dvd's of 26 episode series, esp considering they cost a bomb, thats just reality
I guess it sucks to be you, because anime doesn't grow on trees.
OMG there not Bringing them out till Date Available - Dec 12 2012
heres a Link http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/PPxN3TPjvbQfHAQMmU/browse/item/75106/4/0/0
Rightstuf has officially confirmed that's a placeholder date, it's not real. I keep repeating this over and over, and people keep showing up posting "2012 WTF!?" If I could put it at the top of the page in 72 point type, I would.
"That's a good thing! That means the Western consumer wins bigtime!"
The thing is, anime fans in developing countries is effectively cut off from their favourite series. Just to buy a DVD set of Emma first season will require me to save for about a year.
If we stuck with it, we'd be facing Cease and Desist notices and possible lawsuits. It's still copyright infringement.
>>40 Actually, I'm sure you can...
"falling on deaf ears", ne'er were truer words spoken...
You'll have to make do with just 24 points. 72 turned out to be not feasible.
"72 points" was just a placeholder font size. :) Thank you.
thanks God!!!
ok if it is not 2012 then I hope is around end of 2007 or Behing of 2008 becuse I like it a Lot and was like ahh I want to see the Rest
I think they're just waiting to fulfill the 1,000 pre-order number before they put a release date. Once they reach that number, they'll start with the packaging and what not. Which from what I understand will be in thinpack form? (Cool!).
My guess is Summer 2008 at the latest for the first season.
use the HTML code that everybody hates <blink> (a now deprecated HTML code) </blink> and maybe have the colors rotate in rainbow colors, that would make it quite horrible and people will notice even in their dreams... bwahahha!
You will be happy to know that CSS includes the property text-decoration: blink. Using this will allow you to create blinking text in any HTML element way into the 21st century!
Thank you for your job so far.
You made the right choice and it's also a little bittersweet for us french people because the rightstuff video won't be distributed here or at prices way to high for my poor budget.
Again thanks for subbing
Gurdil
Just wondering if it's not 2012 then when should I expect to see the ending of Emma 2?
I think business is far more difficult for anime distribution companies than for others in the entertainment industry, because the anime world is so unique. I don't know about the other fans out there, but I don't buy DVDs of something I haven't seen (they're just too expensive for that), I buy DVDs only of something I liked and want to see again. Outside of the anime world, this would mean a show I'd seen on TV, or a movie I'd seen at the cinema or had rented at the video store. Unfortunately those avenues are closed for all but the biggest anime productions, so all we fans have to rely on are the fansubbers. In this particular case, the series probably won't make it to my DVD shelf. The reason is that I haven't watched any of the episodes I've downloaded yet because I knew there was a chance this series could be dropped before copmpletion, and it's a pet hate of mine to abandon a show part-way through. So why don't I watch what's been released and buy the series to catch the last few episodes? Simply because anime series are notorious for the 'bad end'.
In all, it's a case of nobody's fault, but because of the licensing, the distributors have ironically lost a potential customer. The other side of the coin for them of course is that if they hadn't licensed early then there would be another section of the fanbase saying they were being too slow in getting the stuff over to the western market. Like I said in the beginning, it's tough being in the anime business...
Anyways, thanks to you guys for what you did (even if I don't get to see it myself lol), I'll try to catch your next completed project.
You have the same information we have.
Actually, it's not really a "bad end" notoriety. It is a "japanese ending" and not a "hollywood ending". The US audience is used to the "happy concluding endings" but a lot of japanese shows end in "open endings" where it is left for the viewer to decide on their own imagination (whoa, we get to use our imagination!) what happens next.
I think it is really sad how "hollywood" makes everything (well, not EVERYTHING but most of them) happy... It's what the US audience likes and so the producers cater to that to make money.
There are differences in european and US movies as well asian, on their take on comedy, action, romance, drama, etc. Each culture is used to one thing, the US audience is just not used to the usual japanese endings, that's all. IMHO. =) (I like European action, Asian romance, and US comedy)
Wow, those are some very generalized, loaded statements thar, sweetums. Provide references, please. (I sound like my English professors... LAWL).
No offense taken, but I would like to see where you get your information at... opinions through experience, generalizations from other people, or an actual essay written by someone (I would love to read it if you did!)? I do admit that there are some differences between American and Japanese movies (due to culture differences) but I don't think they have anything to do with "happy endings" vs. "open endings". I've seen several Japanese anime with the so-called "happy ending" and I've seen several American movies with the so-called "open endings" (and happiness is very subjective and ambiguous in the first place).
I'm American, and I personally prefer the ambiguous, bittersweet endings. For example, PotC AWE was perfect (and I won't go into debate on that... it's been said and done several hundreds of times before on the Pirates of the Caribbean ljs and chat boards).
Really, no offense taken over here... and I hope I didn't offend you. Just pointing something out.
Ditto here. I only buy for my favorite series... crap's way too expensive to do so otherwise. And besides, the 2nd season of Emma overall wasn't all that great. The ending was okay though if you like happy endings in a realistic way.
The anime just didn't live up to the wonderfulness of the manga for me. The manga's the only one worth buying (which I will! YAY!)
You take everything all so well. So is pretty much everyone else here on this board. Were we all just brought up under good supervision with parents who actually taught manners (and we were good children and actually CARED)? (Wow, how uncommon nowadays...).
I'm kinda surprised there aren't more foreigners (for me, that is... I'm American) who are cursing us bloody Americans left and right. We seem to dictate so much in everyone else's life in the world (i.e. English appears to be the universal chat language on boards [I've seen several boards refuse posts if English isn't the language used]... not that we're the only English-speaking country...). Look, we've even ruined your right to entertainment!! You can't enjoy what you love b/c of us!
Oh well, just give it time. I may be speaking horrendous blasphemy, but once Emma comes out on DVD here I'm pretty confident you'll be able to find some pirated copies floating around on the internet. Or there may even be someone with too many balls and not enough sense who finishes fansubbing the last three episodes before then. Ya never know.
come on someone finish this show
>>58
It also depends on the type of movie. You can't expect a conclusive and happy ending from movies like "Children of Men" or "300." They're bittersweet and hopeful at best.
I agree, I think Xtian is generalizing too much. Lumping together "most" of the American movies along the happy-ending category can be a little insulting. Not all American movies are popcorn flicks and romantic comedies. We have our intelligent and mysterious ones, too.
Just finished enjoying "Babel" and "Big Fish"
>>57
Where can I find the raws? That'll hold me until I get the DVDs. I've been trying to cure my Emma fever by watching all these period movies like Pride and Prejudice (mini-series and movie), Secret Garden, and A Little Princess... but they're just not doing it. All wonderful movies to be sure... but I need to know what happens with Emma and William. :P
i dont know if i can say it, but, you can watch it in veoh.com. you can still download the raw in tokyotosho.com
i know the feeling of wanting to know the ending of it...
I get it from personal experience and major generalizations LOL. That's why I love intelligently written shows. My favorite being The Usual Suspects, and a bunch of others such as LA Confidential, Memento, Unknown, The Butterfly Effect, etc. I know I lumped everything together but oh well, what can we do in a forum of a few words delving into major categories. So...
I'll mention the Major Animation Studios. Disney vs. Ghibli. Well, just mentioning that would require pages of conversation. yes, they cater to a different audience, Disney to younger than Ghibli's stuff. Yes, there are american studios that cater to older audiences and japanese studios that cater to younger audiences.
My point was, that you'll find a lot more japanese shows having an "open ended" ending than american shows. And yes, you can probably mention hundreds of US releases with open endings...
blah... i have no idea what i'm talking about... i'll stick with anime... btw, anyone see "jikan wo kakeru shojo" (The Girl Who Lept Through Time)? It is a very nice movie =)
if you guys could, please provide translations or subtitle file(.srt/.sub/.ssa/..etc) and we will find raws ourselves..
could you? please...
Just as illegal, just as immoral.
First of all, I'd like to thank everyone at iitran for introducing me to Emma. Usually I'm always a little upset as well as happy when I hear that one of the series I'm watching is liscensed, but from what I've seen of rightstuf, they release fairly fast so we won't have to wait too long and have good quality translations.
I'm not preordering because I'm engineering major and I have to wait until I know how much textbooks are going to be for next semester (usually anywhere from $400-$700, if it's less more anime and books yay!)If I have enough leftover I'll buy the first season since it is much cheaper than other series. However, the Second Act didn't appeal to me as much so I only watched the first few episodes. I'd like to know if people think the last episodes were better and if the ending was the same, better, or worse than the manga (which I've read) before I decide to buy the second set.
On another note I respect iitran's decision not to finish subbing the last episodes (though I'll miss the guide at the ends). Emma is a short finished series that isn't going to be dubbed so the wait shouldn't be long like some other series. I used to never watch fansubbed liscensed series, but after I waited almost two years for the second half of Fullmetal Alchemist and was dissapointed by what I saw of the dub and after 4Kids literally butchered and repieced the One Piece episodes, I stopped adhering to that particular moral code.
I admire your moral code even if I'm a bit miffed about not being able to watch the last 3 episodes of the 2nd act series. But don't you people think your endeavor to help the corporations promote capitalism in this digital day and age kinda POINTLESS? How can you stop the numerous attention-deprived DVD-rippers out there? I really really liked the Emma series but I don't have the financial resource to afford myself a couple of DVD box-sets. And I don't blame anyone, not even globalization, for my predicament. All I'm going to do, is wait a couple of days or week afters the DVD release, then go to isohunt/torrentspy/mininova/piratebay/anidb/etc.....
Heck I don't even have to wait for the DVD-rips. I'm only 2 blocks away from a mall wherein I can buy pirated animes VERY cheap. Only downside is they're all HK-rips...
>>67
You know what, you're right, the efforts to promote the capitalisation and licensing for Emma are all for nought and completely lacking in value whatsoever. It sure is a good thing they stopped wasting their time on it.
And indeed, how will we stop those evil thieving pirates and DVD rippers? No, let's go back a bit. What's your point? Having iitran subs floating around doesn't change a damn thing.
>>68
Great! Tell me how it is, I'm just dying to know. If you can understand it...
Teehee. I understand what you're talking about. I've had that thought several times before myself. But then again, I stay away from all the "happy, shiny, sparkly" anime... I can usually smell them from a mile away (then again, since I've never actually watched them I can't just assume that their endings are going to be the "happy, fairytale endings").
And, no, I've never seen "Jikan wo kakeru shojo". What's it about?
Well, if what you don't like is what I don't like, then you might not care for the ending. Personally, I disliked the ending of the first season overall... they shouldn't have deviated from the manga there - it was annoying and seemed quite unbelievable to me. Otherwise, the first season was pretty good (just not as good as the manga).
I disliked, however, the direction the second season went. I think the only change I liked was having Hans developed (and all of the added history). Otherwise, the characterizations were off, the situations annoying, and some of my favorite scenes were either played off totally wrong or weren't there at all! AGH!
If you agree with me on this, then you'll probably agree with me on the ending. Personally, I found it ho-hum. SPOILERS!!! Emma and William end up together (no surprise). William leaves his family and the family business (but in good terms) and starts his own trade (he built a railroad in South America I believe? I couldn't pick everything up). They meet by the fountain in the Glass Palace, get married, have kids, the whole shebang. Cute ending... but it didn't have the life and passion of the manga. Also, I couldn't help but think that Emma and William could have played off as lawn ornaments in the very last scene. They're standing in a garden with their kids running around, and they look about as lively as a pile of rocks. Then again, I guess that whole complacent, unemotional attitude fits in with the rest of the anime series. END SPOILERS!!!
Well, if you really like supporting major criminal franchises...
China's actually working on the problem now, and the DVDs are likely to be iitran sub rips anyway.
I think Jedi_Vader20 mentioned finding HK DVDs of season 1 that even ripped off our version of the logo!
Even if you don't happen to care about Hong Kong DVDs ripping off the creators of the show and making a profit off it, I'd recommend avoiding them because unless they copied our subs very carefully, their translations are going to be incredibly horrible. They might just be misspelled versions of our translations, though, except obviously for the three last episodes.
I'm not quite sure I see how other people's unethical actions have any bearing whatsoever on our actions and decisions.
Also: $38 a season.
I just laugh and move on when "selfish" people who complain when a "free" service is suddenly stopped and come out and "cry" why their world is so unfair. Takes me back 10 years when I was translating Adachi Mitsuru's "H2" manga each week as it came out on Shonen Sunday (no scanlations back then, just text). A family member had passed away and I posted saying I will stop translations indefinitely, and I actually had a few people curse me and post other complaints. In the end a lot of MORE people (with some actual worldly sense) stood up for me and comforted me. I still see these same type of people whenever a series is licensed and all I do is just shake my head and move on, and hope I'll never have friends who think that way.
anyhow, "Jikan wo kakeru shojo" is a girl who discovers a way to "leap" back in time, and finds that the consequences aren't that fun. =) If it comes out in DVD in the US i'll definitely grab one.
Actually, it's Toki wo kakeru shoujo. The book seems to a bit of a modern classic among light novels. It's been around for quite some time, and only just now finally got the anime treatment (although apparently it does not actually follow the book, but is more of a sequel). There's a live-action movie from the eighties, too.
>>52
seconded, thanks for your effort i as well won't get it since i'm from south america thanks guys
they sux!
Anyway, thanks for subbing Emma and good luck on other projects! Looking forward for more~
I'm a little sad to see the translations go, especially the "Whisper's Guide to Emma" at the end of each episode- they really made the setting come alive, imho. In any case, thanks for all the hard work; it has not gone unappreciated. :)
The only thing that doesn't sit right with me about this licensing is that they're not dubbing it. I mean come on, as good as Yumi Touma's voice is, a show like Emma practically screams to get a proper English dubbing. -_-;
yeah, there was a TV mini-series too I believe in the 70's... if I remember right. The anime is definitely a sequel where her "aunt" is actually the character from the original novel, as she says she has "experience" in "leaping through time". Was it Toki? =)
yeah, and I also see another group subbed ep.10. now at least people will stop complaining i guess.
I have seen the other translated version it isn't that good and I still haven't canncled and won't cancle my order because it is a good series I know a cuple of sites where you can download the transleted last episodes of the second season stop complaning it will not be to long until the offical is out an 2012-12-12 is a placeholder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just wanted to mention, that there are series like One Piece, where the American company eventually drops the project, and/or really screws it up. Maybe you have no idea how badly 4Kids screwed up One Piece, but in that case, isn't it all right for loyal fans to spread the fan subs? I've heard so many people who have just watched the dub, and been completely turned off from the entire series, even though the Japanese version is excellent (and one of my favorite series)....
i would like to hear how emma laugh maybe like urd =)) very seductive lol =D
I think all this fucking 'it gets licensed in R1 OMG DROP' thing, while morally correct, is too American-centric.
Hello, it's cheap for YOU PEOPLE, but what about us people living in other parts of the world were we would most certainly be unable to buy those R1s not too differently from how you people are unable to buy R2s?
There's no sign of a local distribution of Emma at all. Fine, it's not like we deserved it anyway, but the distinction pretty much every other fansub groups between when to drop and when not to is really annoying for us people living in countries with pathetic release schedules (conversely, when something gets legally released here in English before an R1 license announcement, NOBODY DROPS THE FANSUBS)
This is why I learned Japanese so I could just watch the raws and get it over and done with, but it's an issue that still highly annoys me. It's got nothing to do with DVD regions but price.
American-centric or western-centric, it's still a moral and legal issue. I'm sorry that you can't get it where you are for whatever reason, but it's the fansubbers that need to sleep with their conscience at night.
One Piece is licensed by Funimation.
Also, TRSI already hired the fansubbers to do Kare Kano for them, so you probably could've just sent in the scripts.